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#35 12/31/2024 6:26 PM
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I am one that believes real twin training can/should only happen in a sim. I've looked at several around the country but nobody has a Seneca model. However, Xplane 12 has a very nice Seneca II model (Seneca II ) that behaves exactly like mine. I have a nice 3 screen setup with Honeycomb Alpha yoke, Bravo twin throttle and rudder pedals. Makes for very realistic simulated random failures on takeoff roll, just after rotation, in IMC, etc. All of which are dangerous to practice IRL.

Tokirbymd #38 01/01/2025 9:22 AM
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Completely agree. There have been too many close calls (and worse) while training in piston twins to make me comfortable hitting the emergencies hard in the air.

Additionally, I have no desire at all to inflict the extreme on/offs to my engines during single engine shutdowns and simulated one engine out.

Yet training and practice of these is essential.

I did find a Redbird FMX simulator in Sebring Florida that has recently acquired the “Seneca panel” for this Sim. I’ve trained in it once (with an MEI) and plan to go back again. The cost is extremely reasonable.I recommend it.

https://simulators.redbirdflight.com/products/fmx

https://sebringflightacademy.com/
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1997 Seneca V
2300TT Mid-time Engines
Tokirbymd #39 01/01/2025 6:02 PM
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It is my opinion and experience that you both have the right idea here. With almost four decades with the airlines, we did all of our "heavy duty" training in the simulator- V1 engine fails, rejected takeoffs, engine out approaches, landings and go arounds. I can't imagine the exposure doing that stuff in the real airplane. Shortly before I was on the scene, they *did* do some of that stuff in real aircraft, with a lot of unnecessary drama, or at worst, simulated training emergencies turned into real ones, up to, and including, hull losses and fatalities.

With technological advancement, the realism and fidelity of the hardware and software have resulted in the entire training process being conducted in the simulators; the first time a trainee touches a real aircraft is on a revenue flight (of course with a training pilot in the other seat).

With that inspiration, I built a replica of the Cirrus cockpit in my wife's office (she is a gift from heaven). The simulator started out as a 172 (my son was training on that). Over time, I converted the sim to a conversion-capable platform, and I fabricated this bolt-on Cirrus panel. Much of the realism of this version is made possible by purchased modules from RealSimGear
They make common panel components that are physically and functionally accurate (in this case, the Garmin avionics, the Avidyne MFD and PFD, DFC-90 autopilot, and Cirrus switch panel, sidestick and throttle quadrant). Compare the simulation hardware to the image of our actual airplane- I succeeded in duplicating the instrument and control geometry to within ¼” (important for muscle memory development in training and practice). The Instructor Panel is seen at the right side of the area and is a monitor with touch screen format.

Your posts are coincidental in that in the past year we have added a Seneca III to our “fleet” and I am just rolling up my sleeves to build a Seneca representation. In our case, we just performed a wholesale facelift of the aircraft- with an entirely new panel with Garmin glass- so we will lean heavily on RealSimGear as a primary supplier. If there is interest here, I would be happy to share progress and outcome here going forward.

Some assorted observations:

If you are able, try to set up your control placement (geometry, distance) as close to your Seneca as possible (particularly your reach angle and distance to the throttle quadrant). You don’t want negative training in terms of automatic physical response in a future emergency

If your Seneca II is a six pack, you can set up a dedicated instrument panel (known as a 2-D- two dimensional panel) with an additional, inexpensive computer monitor. In the case of the Cirrus sim shown here, they are the “steam power” back up primary flight instruments below the main pilot panel. I used a program called “Panel Builder” that interfaces with X-Plane and builds and displays these gauges. I have been experimenting with building a Seneca panel, and without much of a learning curve, it will work.

Panel Builder

Just keep in mind that as you add screens you might run out of video outputs (most video cards have four, and I believe you are up to 3 screens now). Even if you add another video card you should consider that X-Plane is CPU limited (it doesn’t make optimal use of the extra cores on the CPU) and thus your frame rates will start to decline. Luckily, with flight simulation, the bar for realism is pretty low. My tired old eyes and senses do OK all the way down to 20-30 FPS. Keep in mind that theatrical format is 24 FPS; don’t be discouraged by sports or action gamers insisting that you need 60-120 FPS or else. You will be off to the races, however, if you are in my situation having to add three or four screens for all of the glass avionics units. In the end, I ended up without the right and left peripheral external views- the training and procedure displays are more important for my mission. Besides, most of my rehearsals involve squinting straight ahead at Decision Height and ½ mile!

I was experimenting with the same program you mentioned (the Iceman Seneca variation). It flew great with an important exception- with my hardware I did not have sufficient rudder authority for engine out conditions at higher power settings. It is entirely possible that this can be resolved with hardware and or software tweaking. If push comes to shove, I can fly this program for two engine realism, and just fly the native X-Plane Baron for the scary stuff (engine out).

One thing is certain- I would much rather be punishing the airplane with engine shutdowns and the like on a simulator and not our aircraft. When the instructor was (re) checking me out on a Seneca after my 40 year separation from the model, I wanted to cry when he demoed a full feather with restart. The stress on the airplane and avionics was brutal.
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TedStriker #41 01/02/2025 5:43 PM
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Nice. You may need to tweak your rudder mapping in xplane. I kind of like having it behave a little worse single engine than reality as it keeps me on my toes. But you can also adjust rudder geometry in plane builder as well if you think the rudder isn’t effective enough.

Tokirbymd #44 01/03/2025 10:50 AM
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My son-in-law just began his career with United, flying the 737 as a First Officer, (after a career as a Navy Pilot) and also said that his entire training has been in a Sim in Denver. First time he landed the 73 was on a revenue generating flight.


1997 Seneca V
2300TT Mid-time Engines
Tokirbymd #45 01/03/2025 1:34 PM
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Tokirbymd, I'm sure you are right about this. I already went for the low hanging fruit and have maxed out the rudder authority in the X-Plane settings, so I will need to go to school on Plane Builder. I am using PFC (Precision Flight Controls) rudders that are a little aged but built like a brick sh!thouse, so that might have something to do with it.

admin #46 01/03/2025 2:06 PM
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On behalf of myself (recently retired from an incredible career) and the 100,000 employees, Welcome to the United Family!
That is great news about your son in law, and as follows, your daughter.
Somebody might have given him good gouge, as I hear in the past couple of years we have new hires going straight to wide bodies, and even narrow body captain. He will get to fly more, and accrue seniority much faster on the narrow bodies, therefore getting better control of his off duty life.
I always loved flying with Navy pilots. You always got someone who was at the top of their game on the flight deck, and plenty of great stories to pass the time.

There was one very memorable exception to the sim training > first actual flight on scheduled revenue trip for me. Early in my career there was an FAA provision (I'm sure long abandoned now) that international first officers had to be type rated with actual landings in the airplane. We grabbed a 767 that had just rolled in from JFK at LAX with an instructor and five or six trainees, and went over to Yuma Arizona to do touch and goes- it was exhilarating! Moreover- there were a lot of refusals of the great cuisine in first class on the previous flight, and they hadn't discarded the galley before we took the jet. So those of us either finished or waiting to take our turn up front sat in first class with leftovers- caviar, gourmet cheese platters, prime rib with sides, and black forest cake!!!

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TedStriker #47 01/03/2025 4:30 PM
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Thanks. I've shared your comments with my son-in-law who passes on his thanks. He lives in Tampa, currently based in Houston, and hopes to get MCO or TPA as a base as soon as possible. Hence he "chose" the Guppy vs. the A320 (which was offered).

I'm sure you've got lots of stories....


1997 Seneca V
2300TT Mid-time Engines
TedStriker #48 01/03/2025 5:18 PM
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before you go modifying the aerodynamic model- try changing the response curves in control setup in xplane. Make it less responsive at small deviations, more responsive at large deviation (will give better ground handling but enough authority to manage OEI)


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